The hidden price you pay for energy

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Wednesday, August 20, 2008 6:24:09 PM

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GasBuddy News Article

The hidden price you pay for energy Tuesday, July 08, 2008
Consumer Reports -- Yes, we’re shelling out more at the pump and paying ever-higher cooling and heating bills. But those prices aren’t anywhere close to what we actually pay. The U.S. government supports the oil industry with billions of dollars in direct and indirect subsidies. Over the past 50 years, federal subsidies for fossil fuels (coal, oil, and natural gas) and nuclear power were 12 times what they were for renewable energy sources such as wind, solar, and biofuels. Those subsidies have included income tax breaks, tax-free construction bonds, and below-cost loans with lenient repayment terms.
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JT Moderator	Message Posted: 7/8/2008 9:42:41 AM	Ignore JT Report Abuse
	Tuesday, July 08, 2008 Consumer Reports -- Yes, we’re shelling out more at the pump and paying ever-higher cooling and heating bills. But those prices aren’t anywhere close to what we actually pay. The U.S. government supports the oil industry with billions of dollars in direct and indirect subsidies. Over the past 50 years, federal subsidies for fossil fuels (coal, oil, and natural gas) and nuclear power were 12 times what they were for renewable energy sources such as wind, solar, and biofuels. Those subsidies have included income tax breaks, tax-free construction bonds, and below-cost loans with lenient repayment terms. Visit Consumer Reports for full article

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Gee_NY Sophomore Author Texas Posts:125 Points:186,270 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 10:52:07 PM	Ignore Gee_NY Report Abuse
	Of course they get billions in subsidies; they use lobbyist and PACTS to influence your elected officials to give them your money.
niceguytx Champion Author Houston Posts:5,236 Points:1,015,770 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 1:43:33 PM	Ignore niceguytx Report Abuse
	The question is how will this change the US economy, much more expensive energy. A lot of people believe are standard of living is so high because of cheap energy.
POLELANE Champion Author Ohio Posts:1,460 Points:147,200 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 11:46:25 AM	Ignore POLELANE Report Abuse
	pootland maine ? stoopid gallon system ? no wonder you rented a car from Hungary
Buckram Champion Author Portland Posts:4,924 Points:946,545 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 10:41:43 AM	Ignore Buckram Report Abuse
	I was just in Akumal Mx last week and they pay only $2.59 after converting metric to our stupid gallon system. I filled my hungary rental car with only US$20 (MX$ 200).
gohiking Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:3,221 Points:625,040 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 10:22:42 AM	Ignore gohiking Report Abuse
	We are getting a bargain still for gas when the majority of countries are charging up to $11.00 a gallon. If we invested as much in solar and wind energy as we do on oil, we might be able the reduce our use of oil 1% each year, just a small reduction but enough the bring oil prices down if congress would stop bought by big oil and big business.
rbrowdersr All-Star Author Detroit Posts:504 Points:381,030 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:52:02 AM	Ignore rbrowdersr Report Abuse
	Those prices are coming into plain veiw.
Rageagainsttm Champion Author Tampa Posts:1,453 Points:342,045 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:51:40 AM	Ignore Rageagainsttm Report Abuse
	you mean the pay off
esquared Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:1,100 Points:568,550 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:51:15 AM	Ignore esquared Report Abuse
	Remember, roadkillGA, that, except for the past 18 months, the GOP has had control of both houses of Congress since 1995, and BOTH the White House AND Congress since 2001. Let's be fair how we cast aspersions -- there's plenty of blame to go around. And I'm a card-carrying Republican with a McCain'08 sticker on my car!
domer2 Veteran Author Gary Posts:417 Points:288,975 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:50:32 AM	Ignore domer2 Report Abuse
	where do i apply
greywolves All-Star Author Las Vegas Posts:726 Points:846,475 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:47:44 AM	Ignore greywolves Report Abuse
	them that gots... and them that ain't..
ramshot412 Champion Author Riverside Posts:11,198 Points:1,122,800 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:44:22 AM	Ignore ramshot412 Report Abuse
	And the oil barrons still whine that they aren't making enough profit...
roadkillGA All-Star Author Georgia Posts:772 Points:58,215 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:38:17 AM	Ignore roadkillGA Report Abuse
	Go guys get this topic rolling...KUDOS to MitchelSdReview
roadkillGA All-Star Author Georgia Posts:772 Points:58,215 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:36:42 AM	Ignore roadkillGA Report Abuse
	They will go away when Obama finds a way to furnish the nation with DEMo cars. I hate to think how many UAW workers have heen put out of work because of "we are here to help" Dems
MitchelSdReview Veteran Author South Dakota Posts:383 Points:71,605 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:34:52 AM	Ignore MitchelSdReview Report Abuse
	IF we end the tax breaks et el then we will have higher price at pump
whitemiata Champion Author Albany Posts:5,012 Points:1,091,560 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:32:18 AM	Ignore whitemiata Report Abuse
	and perhaps some of those subsidies came into existence back in the 70's and 80's when energy was tight and they said "we need help to find more oil", and they got the help. now we're talking about subsidies for wind, or solar, or hybrid cars, or things like that, but those tax breaks or subsidies almost never go away... more government is almost never the solution to the problem..
roadkillGA All-Star Author Georgia Posts:772 Points:58,215 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:32:00 AM	Ignore roadkillGA Report Abuse
	We are being hit at the pumps but from what I have seen in "news" stories from China, it looks like air quality in Pittsburgh before they were forced to close production plants 40 years ago. What will this do the outdoor Olymiac contestants. Seems like the same as running behind cars in rush hour and no quality control or smog control in cars.
ardmoretoday Veteran Author Oklahoma Posts:420 Points:367,880 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:30:41 AM	Ignore ardmoretoday Report Abuse
	A bunch of crud
cantonbill Veteran Author Atlanta Posts:315 Points:92,825 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:29:51 AM	Ignore cantonbill Report Abuse
	I don't think we need to hit corporations with windfall profit taxes, but we should end tax breaks and subsidies for corporations making billions in profit. All this while our federal debt is around $10 trillion and we pay $250 billion annually on interest (the 4th largest expenditure after defense, social security, and medicare, just think what we could do with an extra $250 billion/year)?!? All we have to do to balance the budget is to pay off the national debt. We've got one huge national credit card, and the bill will come due someday.
laddyboy62 Champion Author Riverside Posts:1,120 Points:903,335 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:26:10 AM	Ignore laddyboy62 Report Abuse
	always a story....
Superbee Rookie Author Twin Cities Posts:4 Points:453,545 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:24:40 AM	Ignore Superbee Report Abuse
	CrazyQ is right on. Increased CO2 in our atmosphere is not a bad thing. Increased CO2 should result in increased production of oxygen through photosynthesis. Also, global warming is a sham! Increased CO2 has never been shown to be a cause for the warming of the earth. Ice column records, etc. show that increased CO2 can be a "result" of the earth warming but has never been shown to be a "cause" for the earth warming.
tazdriver Champion Author Alabama Posts:1,854 Points:480,550 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:22:58 AM	Ignore tazdriver Report Abuse
	We pay for everything, the government has no money without taking it from us, corporations have no money without taking it from us, we the people were the source of all the money government and business has, when we are pinched the system is really pinched since we do the work that keeps the wheels turning.
mcevoy22 Sophomore Author Utah Posts:148 Points:36,420 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:21:42 AM	Ignore mcevoy22 Report Abuse
	If they don't give them tax breaks, they will just pass the prices onto us.
sailormon Veteran Author Michigan Posts:423 Points:157,595 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:15:35 AM	Ignore sailormon Report Abuse
	We need to dump the Big Corp subsidies!!
kidmikey37 Veteran Author Nevada Posts:412 Points:110,780 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:12:50 AM	Ignore kidmikey37 Report Abuse
	just another reason for alternate fuels
roydarecker Champion Author Minnesota Posts:2,505 Points:563,330 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:12:29 AM	Ignore roydarecker Report Abuse
	I think tax break breaks for power companies are ok for construction remodeling plants to be more efficient and to go green.
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:7,795 Points:628,110 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:02:22 AM	Ignore tomok Report Abuse
	no more subsidies.......... Let the market decide what to do.
vascojoe All-Star Author Washington Posts:719 Points:843,175 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 9:02:15 AM	Ignore vascojoe Report Abuse
	I agree with CrazyO.
tobasco Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:2,726 Points:757,415 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:53:56 AM	Ignore tobasco Report Abuse
	So lower the subsidies to "traditional" energy companies and give them to renewables? How about remove subsidies and let the market decide which energy source is the most efficient.
CrazyQ Champion Author Washington Posts:11,852 Points:1,369,650 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:53:13 AM	Ignore CrazyQ Report Abuse
	This is a very, very biased article. Not surprising, considering its source. Carbon dioxide, CO2, is not a pollutant. We breath it all the time. It is and always has been, a small part of the air we breath. The so called subsidies are really absence of taxes. If removed, oil would cost us more, but the money would be going to the government, not the oil companies. Just two examples of the twisted logic of these ideologues.
kkelkop Rookie Author Scranton Posts:91 Points:24,820 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:51:06 AM	Ignore kkelkop Report Abuse
	It all adds up to more money!!!
scrounger Champion Author Vancouver Posts:5,840 Points:1,597,890 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:47:20 AM	Ignore scrounger Report Abuse
	no suprise there
my3sons Champion Author New York Posts:1,169 Points:779,225 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:46:56 AM	Ignore my3sons Report Abuse
	we pay for everything
AC-302 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:7,310 Points:1,225,380 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:46:52 AM	Ignore AC-302 Report Abuse
	"Over the past 50 years, federal subsidies for fossil fuels (coal, oil, and natural gas) and nuclear power were 12 times what they were for renewable energy sources such as wind, solar, and biofuels" --OK, but I'm sure we get far more than 12x as much energy value from fossil fuels than from alternative or renewable fuels. So what of it? Wind, solar and biofuels are tremendously inefficient in comparison. So we should throw more money at inefficient technologies? Doesn't make sense to me....
GWayne Veteran Author Florida Posts:433 Points:107,630 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:44:11 AM	Ignore GWayne Report Abuse
	I wonder how much of those subsidies make there way to what we pay or to their profit margins????
rod1965 Veteran Author Portland Posts:368 Points:45,315 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:42:26 AM	Ignore rod1965 Report Abuse
	Didsomebody wake up a reporter at consumer reports? everything has a hidden cost and the government subsidizes almost everyone.
ladyjj All-Star Author Tennessee Posts:699 Points:69,910 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:39:46 AM	Ignore ladyjj Report Abuse
	Well It is a shame they do all this for these companies so if they can do that for them why in the world won't they give tax breaks and cut and low cost loans with lenient repayment to the working poor. Why if these people get all this arent they coming up with new and better ways to fuel our country? It just doen't seem right to me.
higginslake Veteran Author Michigan Posts:431 Points:90,175 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:39:15 AM	Ignore higginslake Report Abuse
	Money is not the root of all evil, it is the Love of Money that is the root of all evil.
Bannack Veteran Author Florida Posts:395 Points:79,520 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:37:22 AM	Ignore Bannack Report Abuse
	One would be shocked at the hidden prices for everything.
Chazzer Champion Author Nevada Posts:7,624 Points:1,640,110 Joined:May 2002	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:36:49 AM	Ignore Chazzer Report Abuse
	Oh, you betcha!
docwilly Veteran Author Scranton Posts:363 Points:72,730 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:36:15 AM	Ignore docwilly Report Abuse
	So why a subsidy with such obscene profits as well as tax breaks???
mrkel Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:1,333 Points:723,480 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:36:07 AM	Ignore mrkel Report Abuse
	Time to make some big changes in this country! As quoted in this article: "In this country, because of subsidies, it’s hardly surprising that traditional sources of energy are less expensive than renewable ones. Redirecting resources to alternative energies will lower their costs."
spunky4443 All-Star Author Washington Posts:695 Points:365,875 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:35:28 AM	Ignore spunky4443 Report Abuse
	Us Tax payers, are ignorant about alot of things, that the Government screws us on.
357revo Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:6,040 Points:680,765 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:34:37 AM	Ignore 357revo Report Abuse
	This is a typical Big Green hit piece on the oil industry. You have to read the words and parse the sentences to get around the lies by omission. Quote: "Over the past 50 years, federal subsidies for fossil fuels (coal, oil, and natural gas) and nuclear power were 12 times what they were for renewable energy sources such as wind, solar, and biofuels." #1: FIFTY YEARS! Fifty years ago we didn't HAVE wind, solar, and biofuel as industries with the potential to produce significant energy. However, fifty years conveniently covers the entire history of the nuclear power industry in the U.S., which was developed from scratch over that period. Just consider the federal money that went into developing that industry alone since the first large scale commercial reactor in the U.S. went into operation in Shippensport, PA in December 1957. And apparently the nuclear subsidy money was well spent, as the industry contributes about 20% of our national electrical energy. Wind, solar, and biofuels are currently receiving the bulk of the investment money. That's why the article doesn't say anything like, "Last year, the renewable energy industry [wind, solar, biofuel, ethanol] received xxx times the subsidy as fossil fuel industries [coal, oil, gas, nuclear]." #2: Just like all other businesses, coal, oil, and natural gas receive investment tax credits as a function of the IRS code. So do wind, solar, and biofuel industries, only they haven't had 50 YEARS of operation, so they haven't had the TIME to accumulate significant credits relative to the fossil fuel industries. Also, the fossil fuel industries dwarf the power and energy produced by the newer "renewable" energy industries. #3: The subsidies that are mentioned for oil are tied to selling prices of the crude, and they haven't been paid in years as a result of higher crude prices. #4: The entire ethanol boondoggle has resulted in billions of dollars in subsidies, all or most of which goes to... the EVIL oil companies, that blend the ethanol into E85 and E10 fuel. Ethanol is supposedly a "renewable" energy source, deserving of Big Green's support, yet the Consumer Report article puts those subsidies on the fossil fuel side of the ledger, as it goes to the oil industry.
WonderfulMI All-Star Author Michigan Posts:911 Points:71,920 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:34:10 AM	Ignore WonderfulMI Report Abuse
	We all pay one heck of a lot in military spending to enforce protection of "our" oil, which is under their sand. We would better spend that money (or part if it) on alternative energy development.
sledman56 Veteran Author Madison Posts:277 Points:194,115 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:31:27 AM	Ignore sledman56 Report Abuse
	VetteBlue is right the tax you pay on gas goes to other government funding and not towards roads where it should be going.
bejamaluthopa Rookie Author Florida Posts:49 Points:103,130 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:31:11 AM	Ignore bejamaluthopa Report Abuse
	Don't you think it's time for the big oil companies (and anyone else) who over the past decades made heafty profits to dig into their deep pockets and start cutting on overhead, margin (greed) and invest in R&D?
Gypsy_tech Rookie Author Twin Cities Posts:88 Points:4,480 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:30:24 AM	Ignore Gypsy_tech Report Abuse
	The government should stop all subsides, even on bio fuels. Then if the bio fuels were viable the cost would reflect that.
VetteBlue Champion Author San Jose Posts:2,398 Points:515,665 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:29:51 AM	Ignore VetteBlue Report Abuse
	Also, the gas tax does not pay for the roads.
Brockvillian Veteran Author Ontario Posts:362 Points:262,320 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:29:21 AM	Ignore Brockvillian Report Abuse
	I should start an Energy company then. ;)
Zygnatz Champion Author British Columbia Posts:4,521 Points:888,155 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: 7/9/2008 8:28:20 AM	Ignore Zygnatz Report Abuse
	So the government is lubricated by BIG OIL. What's new?